Tuesday, May 05, 2009

Recession Prompts Gender Role Reversal: Black Woman Slams Her Husband

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=7497859&page=1

I was hoping I heard the black lady incorrectly. I actually prayed while preparing my dinner that the sista was joking. No dice! Turns out this black lady said what she said. Of course, I waited a few minutes before I decided to blog about this. Then I calmed down. Then I got angry. Well, that's too strong of a word to describe my feelings. I was disappointed by her response. It, once again, validates what so many think of black women who have climbed the 'corporate ladder'.

What say you?

Shared by Brian E. Payne.

51 comments:

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

I have not even viewed it and I get the feeling that it ties in directly to the the philosophies of
Slave management "consultant" Willie Lynch (Please take time to research it). Amerikka has calculated the degradation of the black man and his families since the time they set eyes on us. Africa was raped physically and psychologically and what we see and hear on this land, no matter how many years ago, are the results. Many of us have a twisted definition of success. We focus so much on the outside....................Finances, Jobs, careers, status. Though important, these things are relevant to oustside forces. What's inside us........................Integrity, character, spirit, confidence, and peace should get more attention. We have the ability to adapt to circumstances but why succomb to it. Our roots are not based on public validation. Many of us have bought into the ways of the money/power hungry deamons that have CAPTURED us. Meanwhile OUR kids and generations continue to suffer from insecurities, low self-esteem, and lack of attention. I pray that we Wake up and get in touch with what really has value. Corporate America, Large subdivisions, Luxury Cars, and Great Careers still has not providided the healing for our communities. We have kids hanging themselves, running away from home, prostituting, breaking in homes, disrespecting themselves, and adults yet a lot of us "don't need a man" or "just chillin".

-PM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to PM:

PM has spoken. Please watch the video. The black woman is married to a WHITE man. Of course that fact does not change the FACTS you typed. For her to say what she said is characteristic of a the 'new black woman'. 'Liberated'. Again, we have attached ourselves to a movement that was not good for the 'sick'. We should have healed before we began to believe we needed what THEY have: Feminism! This was not for us.

Being new does not necessary change one for the better. I have given a descriptive term to women who behave or believe like the woman in the video: The Ugliness Within. These women have it all on 'the outside' - but damaged and just plain ole ugly on the inside. This can go both ways too!

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds again:

The statement would have hurt my feelings. What if the man is trying? He lost his job during a horrible economic and employment time - but yet she still feels this way? Uncaring and insensitive. Those two words have been attached to black men so often...with merit and truth in some cases. So, now our women just gonna behave like these same men?

I have always believed:

When our women begin to behave like the least of men (egotistical, arrogant, and the other words given to describe men who are void of feeling) our culture will be completely ruined.
Sad. Disappointing.

Also, what about her commitment to her husband: for better or worst? Not that the video implies that she is leaving/divorcing. However, it appears in her demeanor that she has totally given up on her spouse. Again, for better or worst?

Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Pm Responds:

Just had to be supportive of my boy this weekend when his wife told him she was resentful that he is not making as much money as she had hoped. He replied to her that she makes twice less than what she made last year yet that does not bother him because he did not marry her for finances. He mentioned to her that he works hard every day and is very supportive in her career and an active family man................Again Willie Lynch! I pray that his husband does not end up in the board room, with nice cars, living in a big$500,000 home lonely and depressed!

-PM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to PM:

Sounds like she will be alone...No man should take this crap!

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

PM responds to Muata:

God did not make women to have the beastlike mentality that most men have. We's really be SCREWED if he did!

-PM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to PM:

PM-

I have to admit that I have witnessed this mentality surfacing in women. Just think about all them pathetic azz women who call begging to have sex and sex only.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader response:

IS SHE SERIOUS!!!

-ME

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to ME:

Yes. Pathetic azz! I would get gone! A white woman would be supportive. You noticed all the other women were white...and SUPPORTIVE.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

I agree with Muata and Patrick. What she said was ugly and showcased the ugliness within, which always tends to manifest itself on the outside in permanent ways. Too many of our women have taken on the role of the feministic pale skin, whose "man" never saw her as an equal or worthy of his all-time consideration. And it is because of embracing the feministic/lesbian role that we continue to lose so much as a family, as a community, as an individual. Eventually, she'll end up bitter and alone--or with her feminist by her side.

-NAY

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to NAY:

...and playing with herself with a magic bullet. she will be alone in a big house and a nice ride. while men will come over, bang, and leave. empty she will be!

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

Interesting comment that woman made.

Not sure what her being married to a white man has to do with anything BUT I can say that she has some serious issues. It appears the effects of being what some call a triple minority black/business/woman HAVE taken a toll on her. It amazes me that we in this country rebuke gender roles.It's amazing that some women see housewives as lesser women, and men that stay at home while their wives work as lesser men. It is not surprising that the feminist movement has hurt the traditional family the same as desegregation hurt the black community.

I was talking to an ex and she said that it sucks that at her age she always meets guys that are doing no better than her. Those are her words exactly. Doing better than he is relative.He could make less salary but have better benefits, no debt and own, but she has student loans and a high salary and rents. Greed is at the center of many of our problems in America but this woman in the video, she has way more issues than greed.

I think she worked her ass of to get where she is and took a bunch of lumps along the way. She played the game right and worked hard in school to get this far and suddenly, she is taking care of her man. To me it sounds like marriage. To some it sounds like a messed up situation. Clearly her husband did not choose this fate and most men would not.She however, did say what I think many women would feel but would never speak.

She is not alone in her feelings but just stupid enough to say it outloud. She will end up alone and bitter or married to another guy and abused. I feel bad for her.

BP feminism has it's pluses. Without it we would not have had women's suffrage or a push for women in science, education and sports. I think its useful. Non violence movements benefited from the more radically viewed movements like the Nation and the Panthers. It's always necessary to have a far right and far left so that we know where the middle is. BTW Don't insult real feminist. This woman is bitter and far from feminist.


"FEMINIST PALE SKIN" I don't think I have heard that one before.

Rhetoric and breeds hatred and more rhetoric. No one wins except those who control the rhetoric and capitalize and legitimize themselves in the process as leaders. All the while they gain from the type of talk. Farrakhan, George Wallace, Bin Laden, Castro, Hitler, Stalin all made a fortune from this rhetorical language. It solves nothing!

-LS

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to LS:

I refuse to go back and forth with you on feminism. It was a movement that black women should have ignored until 'our house' was in order.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader NAY responds:

The majority of Amerikkans have no idea what real commitment is. Tel-lie-vision and other mediums do nothing to solidify it either. And so many of our parents have led misguided lives that until and unless we decide to pursue what it means and what it entails, we spend our lives in "revolving door" relationships. I compare our innerstanding to a child who has been asked to read a book well above his level of understanding. While he reads it fluently, when he is asked to summarize it, he has no idea what he just read. That's a lot of us in a nutshell, when we take vows to love through this and that, to commit to this and that. When I look at Amerikka, I must say that nothing that is happening here should be a surprise to us. Amerikka began in error, so it's only fitting that it end that way.

-NAY

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

LS responds to Muata:

If you think the nation or black panthers were necessary then so was feminism. It was a movement to support women's rights not to devalue or emasculate men. THis woman is an insult to feminism.

-LS

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to LS:

man, please read! i never said it was unnecessary. it just was not a movement black women should have embraced until we fixed our internal issues as a result of slavery. lord.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

LS responds to Muata:

that's an ongoing process which must be done regardless but not to support a movement that called for and end to oppression seems like a bad idea. I don't think we will ever overcome the negative effects of slavery as long as we are in America unless we make America ours and embrace America. If we don't then we will always feel like a second citizen. Every nation has its bad history but those who embrace the good and move on from the bad having learned from it seem to be better off. However, that usually only works in more homogenous societies. Our diversity is what makes us a great nation but it also is one our biggest problems.

-LS

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to LS:

the support can be there but moving with it as if it was necessary for us at the time was the mistake. we have other issues. i am tired of us grabbing a hold of movements that can wait until we address our issues. the issues we created and the COUNTLESS ones created by the white man raping our women and beating our men. white people will not address the real issues (barack obama will not either) that are reflective of our culture. instead they want us to just move on. the sore needs to heal, LS. we need to heal the wound. we are not healing because we want so desperately to be like men and women who have created a hell of an environment for us. stupid. i want no parts of most of america. we are a failing society. continue to live. then you will continue to see. don't fight the reality. hit it face on. then move.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

NAY responds to LS:

You're right rhetoric breeds nothing, but truth does. The women's "suffrage" movement wasn't about the rights of Black women; it was about pale skin women, known in some circles as white women. Until caucazoid influences took hold in our communities, Black men and women had no problem sharing the "power" principle. It is caucazoid thinking that the mothers of the Earth are less than and are, therefore, left to fight for equality.

Just as I am no defender of Blacks who wallow in stupidity and intentionally betray the freedoms of our people, I am definitely no defender of the pale skin who has consistently used psychological displacement of the mind to corrupt the ways of all civilizations.
I'm not trying to make a dollar off rhetoric. But I know we have to stop dancing in minefields and not expecting to get blown away. It is Blacks in Amerikka, not all, but enough, who keep painting pictures that are nothing more than figments of their imagination and then label everything else rhetoric--a word instilled in their brains to automatically dispel any truths that might come their way. But I understand that and do what it takes to not become upset by their limited thinking. It's all part of the programming meant to keep us at each other's throats. Eyes always on the wrong prize.

When I speak, it is not from a rhetorical standpoint, but a referenced one. It's actually an insult to the intelligence of a researched person to be told she speaks rhetorically. I always go back to the historical basis, and as Brother Malcolm said, "history best rewards all research."

-NAy

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to LS:

typical move:

devalue truths and graet points to the rhetorical.

so characteristic of a man/woman who refuses to face the the music.

and, it is insulting. people on this email correspondence are not unintelligent. we are an evolving people, and if our comments are not main stream and safe it does not mean we are spouting rhetorical arguments. i actually hate when a black man or woman goes in this direction of insult. they are typically the weakest of us. unable to stand for truth and fact by devaluing valued comments to the rhetorical. i guess every word malcolm breathed was rhetoric. how about bob marley? hw about stokely? how about FREAKING Jesus? i guess he was a whiner too.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

LS responds to NAY:

Are we speaking only in AMERICA? What evidence supports the notion that black men and women had no issue sharing power? Additionally, what country in the world did women have equal rights historically?

Caucazoid thinkin eh? Figments of the imagination? I think the greatest thing about this country is the freedom of thought. Now , some bind themselves by choosing to be more in tune with Lil wayne and TMZ. Others liberate themselves through their thirst for knowledge.

I agree with you on some points but I disagree on word choice. I feel the tone and word choice is meant to be derogatory which takes away from an otherwise logical and well supported argument. BP does it all the time. haha

I will have to agree to disgree but I feel I should make one last point. I support only certain aspects of the feminist movement. I think many women have gotten caught up in what it means to be feminist and taken this notion that they don't need a man. Its true that we can surivive and live a long life alone but to take part in the beauty of life that my wife and I are experiencing requires a male. Hearing the heartbeat of your little one that is forming inside your mate is amazing. Sharing that with her is even more amazing. My point is that women can have groups that seek equality for women and are in favor of protecting what should be theirs by nature. True feminsist only seek to empower women not to devalue men.

I just read what BP said last as well. I think I addressed it earlier in this email but I will do so again.

If I insulted anyone it was not with intention. But if my opinion that that was a form of rhetoric is insulting then I can't apologize. If this is a forum of open expression then we must be tolerant of others opinions. I beleive that using words like "FEMINIST PALE SKIN" is a form of Rhetoric. Now the word rhetoric has several definitions. I won't cite them as I am sure you know them already. Hitler used rhetoric as did Marley. Now they are two different types of people. Clearly one used in in a way to demean and to influence. Marley used it to influence. Still both used rhetoric. Rhetorica is used in many forms and its a weapon often uses to mobilize masses. Barack's rhetoric "CHANGE".

-LS

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

LS responds to Muata:

i can't let this one go: you put

-farrakhan in a catagory with hitler. farrakhan has done more for black people than you and i ever will. he has never ordered mass killing of whites. he just described what some of them are: devils.
-castro in the same catagory with stalin. castro is the man that said f*ck you to the united states because the cracker politicians tried to take his country.
-farrakhan in the same catagory with bin laden. farrakhan has never sponsored or supported terrorism although black people have been victims of terrorism at the hands of millions of white men.
-farrakhan and castro in the same catagory as george wallace. george wallace ordered bull conner to turn water hoses on the elderly, women, and children.

i guess we both have disappointed each other over the years. right?

your last paragraph below is characteristic of a lost black soul. farrakhan has devoted his life to truths and facts. these men you listed are murderers.

you have your opinions of me...i am sure. one thing is for sure: i am the same brian e. payne i was when you met me. i stand on the side of truth. yeah, yeah: truth is subjective but where is an untruth in this:

the government you support and the white race you adore has wreaked havoc on the masses.

sadly, it is taking me restraint not to curse your azz out. but, i will not because i love you. peace. i do love you.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

LS responds to Muata:

thanks for the compliments.

You see what you choose to see in my arguements, I stated those things to say that just because one person believes it does not mean it isnt rhetoric. and the word carries many meanings. that is my point, I don't adore the white race but I do support the same country that you do. You pay taxes. then you support the US.

Amazing that because you don't agree with me, I hate myself and I am blind from the truth. If it's subjective then let me be subbjected to my own fate from the truth that I realize. We are on the same side of the fence but your issue with me is that I see the world differently. ITS ALL OPINION THERE ARE NO TRUTHS BEYOND LIFE AND DEATH!

-LS

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

NAY responds to LS:

How much of Afrikan history are you familiar with? Here are just a few examples: the Nupe women, Dahomey women, Majaji, Yaa Asantewaa, Amina, Nandi, Hatshepsut, and many other Candaces (Queens). These women not only shared equal footing, but even led their countries into battle. Also, read the history of the Royal House of Kush and see how many women ascended the throne to reign over that kingdom, Ahotep being one. And these women weren't fighting their own men, they were fighting the european, who is not white by the very definition of white and what he has deviously portrayed white to be and, its yang, black to be.

That leaves me to my own definition of what he is, which is pale of skin, pigment lacking, in step with his heart. But I guess it's OK that he is given the freedom to define you through the use of his borrowed language, but I am supposed to feel guilt because I choose to define him according to my language and thought process and his majority outward appearance? That makes me rhetorical and the brewer of hatred? Come on, he started this monkey show. This caste system of lighter and darker, prevalent in Amerikka and worldwide.

And in this system spread throughout India, Afrika and anywhere else he has trampled, the pale skin has done everything to keep you from the real light. Lucifer, SUN of the Morning. The Lightbearer, the Bringer of Light. He turned us to the wrong dark and away from the right light, and we have accepted it like fool's gold. Black man, know thy self!

Anyway, the equal footing enjoyed by Black women and men began its decline in many civilizations with the invasion of the Caucazoid, the group of homeless nomads who cremated their dead so they could carry them with them, because they had no HOME. We see this decline in every HOME they entered. They even used their storytelling ability to steal a HOME.

On another note, the only real freedom of thought is either in our heads, if our minds are not in bondage, and in this e-mail right here, if we allow ourselves to really speak freely. Amerikka has NEVER been a free country. It was always based on the freedoms of a few by the bondage of many.

It's only now that even the anglo is recognizing his own bondage by manipulative forces. With such sublimal forces working against us, many of us really believe we have freedom of thought, speech, whatever you want to call it. And that's what they want you to think because it keeps the wheels of the machine turning.

As time rolls on, your children undergo the same "breaking in" you and your ancestors underwent. With each generation, it gets easier and the children believe they are freer. In the end, the joke's on us, but we can't even come back to set it right. That's also part of the illusion that we're free. By the time you find out you're not, it's either all over or everybody thinks you're a nutjob spewing rhetoric.

-NAY

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader response:

I must say I find this woman's comments to be quite selfish and insensitive (how can one say something like that -on national television, no less- about a person she supposedly loves, and who lost a job due to no fault of his own?) I do believe (or at least hope) her comments stem from fear (of not having security) and socialization on what men are "supposed" to do (and men are socialized the same way); rather than meanness.

While I agree that it is pathetic, I must take issue with the assumption that "A white woman would be supportive." This was a 3 minute EDITED clip in which we saw 2 white women who seem supportive (one never said anything, just sat there w/ what looked like a nervous smile) and this one black woman. We don't know anything about these women's backgrounds, how they were raised, what they were taught. Assuming that a white woman would be supportive, just buys into the stereotypes of white women being these wonderful, supportive and loving women; while black women are mean and hateful shrews who only tear down their men. Such generalizations only hurt us all. I'm especially pained by this, since I know of black women whose husbands lost their jobs, and who have been nothing but supportive. These women have had to bear the financial load alone, but not once have I heard them say anything negative about their husbands. These women are an example to me of what a WOMAN and WIFE (black,white or otherwise) does.

I don't think this is about black or white. Some folks are just selfish, materialistic, and ignorant. This behavior is not limited to a specific gender or race.

-RG

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to RG:

The black woman in this video did a lot of damage to us (black folk). She fits right into the stereotype of the 'mean-spirited black woman'. She validated the stereotype. Probably without realizing it. This is why we need to be careful what we say and do. Thank God I do not go around blasting my girl because of what another one did. We all have issues - but I must say (while threading water) that black women just appear to be so darn mad. So upset. So unhappy. Yes, women can list countless reasons why. However, my black momma never displayed negativity or projected it onto the world because my sorry daddy left her high and dry. Black women everywhere I go look defeated. Even at church. No bubbles about their attitudes. Yes, I am generalizing (some need to be made to make points) - but this is my experience as a black man. I say, get therapy. Smile some time. And, stop running men away with the Ugliness Within. Every white woman I have ever dealt with was pleasant. No attitude whatsoever. Guess what? These white women deal with the same crap black women deal with to some degree. So, why the nastiness from black women? Is it a da*n badge of honor? Please feel free to analyze black men. We are issued plagued too. I just want the women who are tasked with being the primary caregiver to black children to be nice. Approachable. Not, mad and nasty. Also, conduct a small assessment: try to note the smiles that you see from black women. I just walked around downtown looking for a 'happy looking' black woman. No dice. All of them looked evil azz h*ll. Just mad.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader response:

OMG! I can not believe she said that. That to me just sounds very selfish and ugly. What if the tables were turned and she was the one who was laid off. She would not want her husband to feel that way about her. Marriage is a 2 way street and you have to have each others back.

Not all black women are mean and bitter (well maybe sometimes), but you have to know when to move on and let things go. Some of us can be supportive and nurturing!

-AB

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader response:

my two cents - - we don't know the full story....

we don't know how long the mr. has been out of work, or what he has done to find employment. it is possible that her lack of respect comes from his "refusal" to look at other means of making money than what he is used to - - perhaps he has slipped too comfortably into the house husband role....

i have, more often than not, been the main "breadwinner" and that is not a problem, unless i sense a lack of effort in my partner doing, legally, whatever is necessary to handle "our" business, and that means if you cannot find a job in your field - hit mcdonalds, kroger, wal-mart - - whatever, and how many evers are necessary to get the job done. it is what i did as a single parent (not receiving child support from an ex-husband), it is what my father did for his family, and it is what i expect from my mate.

peace & blessings,

-SM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader responds to SM:

Well I've read all the comments and watched the video and I have to agree with Sheri we don't the entire story. She could be fustrated with him about other things, we don't know how long he's been out of work, etc.
and yes, it has to go with a lack of effort.

-SM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds:

You know what I have noticed since I started blogging and posting to discussion boards:

When there is a subject that pertains to black men and women relationships or something similar - you know those discussions that generate emotion - we (black men and women) display our pain. A pain that was caused by outside forces. A pain that we have truly not addressed because we continue to latch onto THEIR WAY without examining our predicaments.. Now, this is not to remove responsibility from us. However, The Man has done a number on us. We are jacked all up. It shows.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

You won't like my response Brian:

She said what a lot of women feel.. She's taking a beating because she probably shouldn't have said it publicly and embarrassed him... and exposed her personal situation to negative criticism.. but her sentiment is not something I am angry about... I understand it...

I suppose for those who do not see their men as protectors and providers but just another variant gender will not share, understand or respect her sentiments...

For those that do see men in this way her sentiments will resonate with them on some level.. whether they admit it or not....

Incidentally, the sentiments regarding role reversal has already taken place in the black community since slavery...

-SK

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

I do not believe she should have stated it.. but there is probably nothing that will change the emotions.. It's sort of like many women feel with a short statured man.. (their understanding of short) for some women a man's height is of little consequence to his character and compatibility.. however, to many women while these characteristics are extremely important, the reality is that when in a relationship it will be hard to overcome the feeling of being with someone whose height is an indicator of how much or little he is seen as a protector...

the same with providership...


There are two issues here Brian..

1. The emotions that are conjured up.. and the reasons behind them...

2. and the verbalizing of those emotions...


Emotions are tricky, sometimes they can not be logically eradicated.. meaning just because someone may think it is best to feel a different way does not mean they can MAKE themselves feel differently... in that case they will state what they don't feel... I believe that's the best you can do in such a situation...


For many women part of being a protector means being able to hold your own at least as well as the woman... She will intuit if she is able to do what is necessary to hold down a job... any job then so should her man.. if he is seen to abandon this task she will look down upon him...

In the scenario presented in the video there is not much to go on regarding her reasons and so one can not evaluate fully why she feels that way...

I don't see her as inherently arrogant, egotistical etc.. for having said it.. she seemed like her frustration superceded her respect... that can happen if you feel disrespected for having to carry the financial weight of a household if you feel you are doing so unnecessarily....

To your answer what if he is trying? That's subjective.. I have a friend whose husband put in one resume and made 10 calls (no resume, no follow up) to try to get a job.. then he gave up and looked for something out side of his field.. and with ridiculously low pay... She had to cease nursing her children and get a job, along with her extended family to aid in paying the bulk of the family expenses... to her what he was doing was not "trying" to him he did all he could.. 10 calls and a resume was his limit.. I say that to say each household and sensibility is different I wouldn't write off a woman who expresses frustration so easily....

Regarding commitment.. even though she did not express it.. I think intuitively we know that a marriage has a less chance of surviving when respect is gone.. Again, in her situation I have no idea the reasons behind her sentiment only that his loss of income has stimulated it... and yes, typically a lack of respect does not bode well for a marriage... One can stay committed but the marriage will be a painfully cold loveless one...


-SK

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader SK continues:

On a related note, I do believe black men (on average) are raised with a completely different sensitivity and awareness of what it takes to survive in this world... and as a result many lack ambition or purposeful drive... many do not see a place for them in this world and are not apt to create it or MAKE it happen... and thus turn to their women and ask for leniency which in turn is seen as laziness...

Now that is an overgeneralization that is probably best not stated on such a board as this with a wealth of overachieving black men.. :-) However, HU is not reflective of the majority unfortunately...

and the percentage of college educated ambitious purposefully driven brothers are not the majority overall... even within the academic setting...


On a side note... I know a brother who is particularly vocal about the lack of support from black women.. but when probed further regarding his frustration.. he really is inflexible to change, lazy and trying to be an entrepreneur in a field with an approach that has failed numerous times over the decade within a failing market and he has lost his license but has refused to work a steady job (because of his entrepreneural bent) and is too deep in debt to return to college.. His woman is tired of bottom feeding and is frustrated.. he says he would do better if only she believed in him... I asked him after 13 years of failure what more do you want from her? His response was that I didn't understand the nature of business.. and that I'm just like every other woman that demands........
I finished his sentence..

"Stability?"


he was hot mad with me..

I then suggested that he needed to secure his woman by at least explaining and sharing with her how he plans to get out of the situation so she will have something to look forward to.. and he felt like he didn't need to do alladat.. which made me suspect that he didn't have a plan..

so I just suggested that he seek out a woman that wants a family with no stability indefinitely...and no forthcoming plan...

He wrote me off as arrogant...


mmmmk.... Just because you're working does not mean you're working intelligently or that you are not masking laziness as "work"... doing the bare minimum to get by and becoming frustrated with lackluster accomplishments directly proportionate to the quality of the effort and intellect employed ...

-SK

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to SK:

SK-
I am getting offended, and that typically does not happen to me. I am stepping back.

All these brothas out her doing their thang. You focus on the bad?

"On a related note, I do believe black men (on average) are raised with a completely different sensitivity and awareness of what it takes to survive in this world... and as a result many lack ambition or purposeful drive... many do not see a place for them in this world and are not apt to create it or MAKE it happen... and thus turn to their women and ask for leniency which in turn is seen as laziness..."

SK, in all due respect, you can't be serious!

"lack ambition or purposeful drive"

Do I have to list the COUNTLESS black men who have both characteristics? Unbelieveable.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader response:

At least it wasn't a brotha who lost his job!

But anyway, this woman has lost her damn mind. I think it's fine to say what you feel. She's being honest. But on national TV?! She should have used a little more tact.

What this argument brings me back to is the fact that so many folks get married before realizing who they are really marrying. That dude knows damn well what his wife thinks, and that the minute something didn't go his way, she'd "lose respect for him".

As someone who is married, i realized long ago that you should not get married until you are ready to make SACRIFICES! AND, that you better be happy to make them. I married an actress, which means that when she's doing a play, she's gonna work long hours and not be home when I get home from work (and maybe sometimes before I go to bed). I love her. I want to do whatever makes and keeps her happy because I know that if she's happy, then I'm happy and equally important that she'll WANT to keep ME happy as well. The love I give comes back to me in spades. Folks need to evolve and drop all this bullshit. That's just stuff that we've been led to believe is our nature. IT ISN'T. Are you really ready to love someone unconditionally or not! Then don't get married!

Let me break it down even further. All this "male as provider" is some old victorian bullshit! Black men and women have ALWAYS BOTH WORKED. How the hell would we have survived if we hadn't! This is the shit that continues to divide us as we are constantly trying to take on the attributes of our oppressor.

-F

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader response:

I saw the clip and bottom line this lady was R-U-D-E for saying that on national TV. To say that you have lost respect for your man to the whole nation is even more belittling and the sign of being a colossal nag.Are you serious? Do you think the man feels good about being hemmed up in the house after he lost his job?Talk about kicking a person when they are down.

My two cents.

-O

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader EJ responds to SM:

Now you are changing the circumstances to fit a certain situation. The man was washing the dishes! She stated she didn't want to see him in an apron anymore! HE WAS WORKING! I don't believe the man you are describing would be doing all of that!

-EJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

SM responds to EJ:

i haven't changed any circumstances to fit any situation, i stated we don't know all the facts and proceeded to name a couple things which might have prompted her disrespect.

and i will say it again - we don't know what effort he has made to find employment, and if he has comfortably slipped into the house husband role without making a serious effort to find gainful employment, there is a problem, and it's a whole lot bigger than her expressing her honest feelings.

if we agree at the onset that you stay home and i take care of the bills - cool. but if we are both working and one loses a job, in my opinion making every effort to continue to contribute financially is the responsible, respectful thing to do (for both parties).

we have not a clue what their financial situation is, if there are children, what stress the mrs. is going through paying by herself what once two were paying, and if the mr. is not making every effort to financially assist once he's lost his job - i don't have any respect for him. him washing the dishes doesn't mean a damn thing if she is stressed about paying the water bill.....

-SM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

EJ responds to SM and EFJ:

So if he has been out of work 3 years the love and respect stops? What if he made a business decsion that went wrong and you all lost most of your money....what kind of reaction does that get from those of you who say.."we don't know how long he has been out of work". So what if he stops doing all of the house work and taking care of the kid and goes to work full time at McDonald's working the same amount of hours you work? Do you come home and do the house work? Do you respect him again? Or how long before you start saying..."Is that all you make"?

Those of you who feel like you don't have the whole story...wouldn't feel any better about him working double shifts at McDonald's than you would about him staying at home full time. The story was about married couples who were forced to switch roles because of job losses. Not dead beat dads...not lazy no good men....not crack head dads. The women made enough money to pay the bills so the dads stayed at home and took care of the home.....Why do BLACK women feel that their men should go to work atMcDonald's instead of encouraging him to start a business, go back to school, or seek out his passion....If the women couldn't pay the bills by herself then by all means the man should go do what he has to do....but that's not what this story was about.

-EJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

EJ responds again:

The bottom line is this...regardless of the situation you want to create....are you ok with her speaking about her HUSBAND like that on national tv? The attitude and stankness with which she spoke about her HUSBAND is the issue.....I don't give a damn what she is stressed about or what the REST of the story is.

-EJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

SM responds to EJ:

yes, i'm okay with her answering a question honestly when it is apparent by the appearance of both partners in the video that they agreed to be interviewed for the piece together and i am sure her feelings were not a surprise to her husband.

there was nothing stank, in her honest answer. glossing over, ignoring feelings that's stank. talking about them quite frequently leads to solutions.

i do however, feel there is a lot of stank in your anger toward her.

-SM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

EJ responds to SM:

WOW! No regard or respect for the sanctity of the home or marriage? NOW WE HAVE AN ANSWER to the difference between white women and MOST black women. You feel like as long as YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT....you can say or do whatever you want with no regard or respect for your spouse and his feelings! I get it now.

-EJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Freedom responds:

I know I am late to this discussion but I had to watch that video several times because it just goes to show how people handle "life" and “life changes” differently. The other two women that were featured in this video were very supportive of their husbands. Even one joking from the movie "Meet the Parents" which I love it is soooo funny about her husband going back to school to be a nurse and she was very supportive of that.

And, featured the other woman that had her own Marketing Firm coming home kissing her husband as she walked through the door and greeting him and their child with gladness and a smile. Even though his dad raised an eyebrow at their arrangement, they were content with him being at home with their child. To me these two couples had a “relationship” a “partnership” and understood like Usher said, “Trading Places.”

Then case number 3, NO support at all! This stuck out like a sore thumb in the middle of the two su pportive wives, which is to no one’s surprise received very little airtime. I am sure the less airtime was not by chance.

I do not know maybe I am getting to old and maybe I am a hopeless romantic but life is so much more than things! I do not know what has happened to “for better or for worst, in sickness and in health.” To me this video showed two women adapting to change while one wanted no parts of it!

Just my humble opinion.

-Freedom

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to Freedom:

your humble opinion appreciated. you are right on. i am so disappointed in the feedback several women have presented in this correspondence. some have actually supported this black woman's comment. we are in trouble...if this is what black men have to 'deal' with...lord help us!

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds again:

The black woman in this video did a lot of damage to us (black folk). She fits right into the stereotype of the 'mean-spirited black woman'. She validated the stereotype. Probably without realizing it. This is why we need to be careful what we say and do. Thank God I do not go around blasting my girl because of what another one did. We all have issues - but I must say (while threading water) that black women just appear to be so darn mad. So upset. So unhappy. Yes, women can list countless reasons why. However, my black momma never displayed negativity or projected it onto the world because my sorry daddy left her high and dry. Black women everywhere I go look defeated. Even at church (have not been in one in a few years). No bubbles with their attitudes. Yes, I am generalizing (some generalizations need to be made to make points) - but this is my experience as a black man. I say, get therapy. Smile some time. And, stop running men away with the Ugliness Within. Every white woman I have ever dealt with was pleasant. No attitude whatsoever. Guess what? These white women deal with the same crap black women deal with to some degree. So, why the nastiness from black women? Is it a da*n badge of honor? Please feel free to analyze black men. We are issued plagued too. I just want the women who are tasked with being the primary caregiver to black children to be nice. Approachable. Not, mad and nasty. Also, conduct a small assessment: try to note the smiles that you see from black women. I walked around downtown today looking for a 'happy looking' black woman. No dice. All of them looked evil azz h*ll. Just mad. This is my assessment. My truth. And, what has proven to be fact. I express this with love and respect: The 'New' Black Women (many) are either pimping themselves, bitter, an emotional mess, unpleasant, unapproachable, combative, and taking on man tendencies e.g. insensitive. Once the black woman is gone, the black race is gone. I say check yourself, sis! tas. If not yourself, think about ALL the black women who are at home alone now. Seriously think about it, and then ask why?

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

NAY responds to Muata:

It was no accident that this woman's blasting of her husband was aired, while we were confronted with supportive european wives. It was meant to deliver the message that it did. And in a lot of ways, I cannot honestly sit here and say that there aren't quite a few highly educated Black women who are bitter and mean.

They are not only that way toward men, but other women as well. I see them every day on the job. They neglect home for job, never drawing a line between the two, because the job has become their identity.

A lot of our women are so caught up in the idea of having big box houses, luxury cars, expensive clothes and shoes, getting weaved and acrylic'd up, that they'd go psycho--if they aren't borderline already--if it were "taken" from them.

This woman spoke to strangers about something that should have been discussed within the sanctity of her marriage. If she felt so little respect for her husband, she should have refused the interview, but her desire for a minute of negative fame prevented her from handling business like a woman.

The biggest question is why is she still married to him, if her respect is so little she would share that on national TV? If this is any indication, she was a bossy, controlling person prior to him losing his job. It would also be obvious that she wears the pants in the household.

I could not, in good conscious, see a brother putting up with this, unless he was weak like the husband in the interview seemed.

I was also once a single parent, making miracles, but that didn't taint my view of how a marriage works and the respect due that bond.

My husband stopped working last year so that we could start a business. We agreed to this because I made more. We also agreed he would homeschool the children.

The thought has never entered my mind to ask my husband to go get a job at Kroger's, Wal-Mart or any other of those places. We share a common goal--to run our own business doing what we love. To compensate for the lost income, we grow the majority of our own food and live pretty much below our means. We're not looking to take on new debt/bondage just because it's available or our friends have one.

My husband educating our children has placed the power of parenting back in our hands, where it rightfully belongs. I've never seen my children so inspired to learn as they are now. They're not limited in how they are able to conceive the world around them, and they're not given a one-size-fits-all education--which is the only kind available in the Amerikkan "schooling" system. That, to me, is something a part-time gig could never replace.

I really don't cringe about a water bill, because if push came to shove, I'd tell the credit card company or some other creditor to go to hell. I don't lose sleep over these greedy companies, and I don't have any respect for the parasitic way they do business and get bailed out for it. Besides, I've already involuntarily funded them through the stealing of portions of my paycheck in the form of taxes.

This woman has the best the world has to offer and can't see it because her vision and judgment is so clouded. What she should be doing is cutting back on expenses like most people living in reality are doing and allow this man to provide an at-home education and presence for their children. If she's the kind of person the interview perceived her to be, her children are probably in private school. Through all my research, I don't see a big difference in a private education and a public one. From both entities, they usually end up growing somebody else's business.
Lastly, there's a time and place for everything. TV shouldn't have been hers to air her "true" feelings. She only exposed her own inability to cope with a given situation.

-NAY

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

PM responds:

Can we move on? Brian you were succesful in getting some people to enter Therapy via this issue. All this lashing out improves nothing. The bottom line is Relationships in any form, requires WORK!..................................... and not all for money!

-PM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to PM:

the lashing out is characteristic of where we are. as i have said time and time again: WE ARE IN TROUBLE. i just pray that from this dialogue we have gained some incite. i for one did - but i am not pleased with what i have re-learned. god help us because black folk are headed in the WRONG direction. we continue to throw gasoline on the fire because we are damaged. just pathetically damaged. our women are behaving like men and our men are not stepping up. church will not heal us. no pastor with anointing oil will. what we need is purification. it starts with self analysis. and, i emphatically believe that black men and women need to stop moving beyond the base that was forged by our ancestors. this culture we live in is not ours. it actually ain't good for us. if you believe it is just note the affects of this american culture on other peoples/other countries. we need to take control, and stop hating each other. we so da*n sad that some of us actually believe it is okay for a woman to disrespect her husband on national tv. we actually believe that it is okay for women to begin to behave like men. h*ll, i want a woman. not some new version of american's woman. i would rather be alone. thanks everyone. pat is right too: we need theraphy. i sought it and it was helpful. i recommend it.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

EJ responds to SM:

The truth! Finally. The black women in the video said what you was feeling about your husband. So that's why you relate to her and the ignorance that she let fly out of her mouth on national tv. Have you told him yet?

-EJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

SM responds to EJ:

from your previous comments, i'm not surprised that is what you received from what i wrote about my own situation.

my husband's job loss was through no fault of his own, and i do not disrespect him for that, never have - never could. if either of us have a disrespect for each other it will be based on our actions toward each other, not on an outside "something".

i'm sure you won't believe this, but i have supported my husband, fully, through a few difficult situations, even when his handling of those situations would be seen by some as disrespectful to me.

i neither agreed, nor disagreed with the woman's words, i stated that we did not know the full situation from the very short clip, and just as others extrapolated in the negative regarding her words, i extrapolated in a different vein, putting forth what i consider valid points of what could be behind her stated disrespect. after reading the initial, what i consider, vitriolic filled responses against black women as a whole, i responded from a different place.

i have found this email thread very disturbing - not because we have differences of opinion, but because some have felt it necessary to be personally disrespectful in their debate as they discuss their perceived disrespect of another.

for me, that is more concerning than a single woman expressing herself in a program geared toward discussing exactly what she expressed, and in which the "wronged" husband was a fully cognizant participant.

i hope you have a wonderful, peaceful day!

-SM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader responds to SM:

I wonder if the woman or SM would be so comfortable with expressing their frustrations in an interview about their supervisor/boss had he/she provoked such feelings as a result of financial strain. I inderstand that we unfortunately lash out at the very ones we say we LOVE. A marriage has a business component to it similar to your job contract. Rarely do you see employees on TV bshing employers while still on the job.

-PM