Wednesday, January 06, 2010

There are a ridiculous number of churches in the city of Decatur (Georgia) - Just STUPID

That was the subject heading of an email I sent to a group of friends/associates on January 6, 2010. You can say it was my non Facebook‘status’. I shall NEVER become a Facebooker! My 2010 commitment…

I went on to declare:

"Christianity in its present state (as presented and represented by blacks) is a self defeating prophecy."
-From Exposing Christianity, My Way of Sharing an Alternative to the Church's Truth

My making an ass of myself (assumption) leads me to believe that well over 65% of the churches are black churches.

As a result of my status and statement, I have lost another reader of my commentary. Devoted Christians cannot take the heat…


The Back and Forth can be read by clicking on the Comments icon below.

*Picture: We still going to the altar and coming back empty handed...The same...No change.

Happy reading...and remember that Jesus loves You...Not the Forgotten Ones.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Exposing-Christianity/Brian-E-Payne/e/9781424194131

Brian E. Payne sharing.


21 comments:

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

TOTALLY DISAGREE.

Politics and Religion.......will make a conversation ANY DAY with. What say you?

PS: And IF that 60% are black churches what is YOUR point, BP? So What?

-NJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to NJ:

Point:

COUNTLESS churches and NO COLLECTIVE wealth. How many black owned banks do we have? Black own health centers? We don't even control the market that keeps our hair straight. How many churches are fully committed to Jesus' work? FULLY committed? How many HBCU's are close to bankruptcy? Saving souls...but not saving lives. Blacks would rather be 'religious' than economically fruitful for their children. Too busy trying to get to heaven, and everybody afraid of dying. Idiotic. Saving a soul to go where? A place undefined...Ridiculous. This is all self defeating.

Not a conversation about religion. This is a conversation about common sense vs. foolishness.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader NJ Responds to Muata:

Wrong again. This is ALL YOUR personal opinion. It is NOT a conversation about common sense vs foolishness.

Now.

1. I've not done the research to answer your question regarding how many black owned banks are around. However, I DO know for a fact, that in Dekalb county, there is a group of churchs ( including mine) that got together to open a bank and a credit union. And, YES, I am a member and I do support it. Who do YOU bank with????

2. Don't know how many HBCU's are near bankruptcy. I do know that organizations, like the Tom Joyner Morning Show, the telethon that Lou Ross used to do, was done for HBCU's. And I am sure that if I had the time to really research your question, it is not as dire a picture as you paint.

3. Same for Black Health care centers, what knowledge do you have of what is happening with these?. I'd bet on in major cities, that there are several.

4. And the BIG ONE...I will TELL YOU about ONE church that is truly committed ( I'm not even going to bother to name drop, not important)....A. Saving Souls B. Saving Lifes C. Making people properous ( not just money, being properous in their thinking and actions) and showing them the WAY how, bringing in knowledgable people to empower them to do better. Teaching them to how to have their own business owners. Showing Men and Women how to BE a fruitful and productive people, again, in their thinking and in their actions. D. Working with young men and woman and helping them grow into respectful adults. Going into high schools, being mentors, teaching trades, opening classes for them to learn, TOO MANY things for me to even put into this email. I've seen such positive things in action all around me. Personally being a part of these events, including my own children in them. Yes, BEING INVOLVED is the key. I am so BLESSED to be a part of a church that is so proactive in HELPING their community, this generation and looking out for the next generation. THAT is saving souls.

Frankly, BP, your email is foolishness. Have your own opinion, you may.....don't make YOUR opinion any less than mine. You state your feelings....I state mine.

-NJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to NJ:

The proof of advancement among blacks is not in line with your bullet points.

1. Collective Wealth: None.
2. The latest report of the financial state of HBCU's was quoted as "troubling". Source: Urban League.
3. All that listed...and no COLLECTIVE advancement for black folk. Nationwide. Internationally.

Not sure why you got on the defense. Emotional. Not once have I. Most of what I stated are facts. Can be supported by just by reading and listening to the NAACP and Urban Leagues State of Black America. Facts are not mentioned in church. Only pie-in-the-sky fantasy: Jesus is the Answer. Really. Where is your Jesus for the countless homeless men and women on the corner? Where is your Jesus for stray bullet victims? I know where He is, with those who believe in Him. Wow! A selective Jesus? As long as the church is fine, everything/everybody else can go to H*ll.

Many of us live in a bubble. Never realizing that our sub-divisions are not reflective of the black experience. Actually, it is a Euro experience. We also fail to see the whole: internationally. This geo area (Atlanta) is a prime example: Wanna-Be Progressive Blacks ignoring the totality of our plight. I see the dirtiness of our plight daily. Daily. Perhaps, I should go to church? For what? No need for a Jesus from me. Him and His Father are too 'selective' for my liking. A child will freeze to death tonight while God's presence is at some New Testament bible study. A study of what? Useless scripture for the starving grandma....

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Responds:

I don't think its the religion that is the problem. It's the practice of it that is the issue. The principles of all religion and basic tenets are fundamentally good besides the worshiping of messengers like Jesus and Muhammad. I think the very foundation of it all is a good way to live life. However, the rest of the stuff that people use to manipulate cause is what scares me. What's even scarier is that there are those that would die for religion and kill others. That is scary. Decatur has lots of churches B but what does it require for a place to be called a church?

At the end of the day the self defeating has less to do with religion than anything. It has more to do with a lack of identity. We don't help either. If you get a nice job and can afford to move into a better neighborhood some say you sell out. If you stay in your hood but don't act hood anymore then you sell out?

As for the comment about black owned banks and stuff. Usually bog churches will create credit unions but from what I know of the few that I hae been to many of them are very commited to a message about tithing. I have even been to one where you have to show a W2 if you join. In these cases the preachers are living well above the income level of their members and often times alot of his things are paid for. This is not uncommon in a lot of churches but it does make you wonder. What message does it teach if poor members give their hard earned money to the church and the church uses that money to support the preacher and his family? I don't think that's a good message but those that attend these churches know full well what they are getting into.

I think too often people depend on faith to make things happen. Faith without cause or action is misguided. Some will have you beleive that if you pray enough and support the church you will get what you need. Often times this is not the case. I think some churches do a great job with counseling and other programs but their failures lie in the way the bible and tenets of religion are used to manipulate. There is no good reason for a struggling family to pay anything at church. Yet some will have you believe that you have to contribute "to keep the church open" when really the church would have low operating expenses if not for high preachers salaries.

At the end of the day its all what you believe. I believe that religion is useful to those who need to feel apart of something greater to find direction.

-LS

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to LS:

Christianity defeats the mind in its present state:

'Wait on God'
'Seek His Face'

Where is the over-riding message of self empowerment? Christianity does not challenge one to become free. Its purpose is to keep you shackled to a belief in an after life and not a present life of self improvement. Unless you view improvement as doing what it takes to get to heaven...Unless you believe you are better by believing that Jesus is a product of a non-sex having women. Stupid!
We the only folk who focuses on believing stupid crap instead of believing in oneself.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Responds to LS:

LS,

I agree with you!

-PM

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to PM and LS:

Religion has been good for some - destructive for millions. Africa, Middle East, Eastern Europe, Asia, Waco, Guyana...More?
Right and wrong can be gained without a religion. My grandma told me it was bad to steal, kill, and lie...She got that from the
principles of humanity. Heck, just grow up listening to Bob Marley, and you will get what is right and wrong. Religion came about as an effort to control and dominate minds. It worked. Was never presented to help people spiritually. Religion is for the weak-minded. Those seeking comfort from something outside of themselves. I have been that weakling. No more! People need to evolve. Religion prevents that. Unless you consider 'getting happy' evolution of the mind. Show me a heaven, and I will kill myself...That's a promise so I can go...LOL!

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

You know what... that is RIDICULOUS!!! I wonder how many of them will ACTUALLY lend a hand to a member in need (oops did I say that?!?!?) Looking forward to your findings.

-SR

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to SR:

Well, SR your question can be answered by driving around the non-sidity Atlanta/Decatur tonight. Notice the homelessness. GO up in Dekalb County jail. By the way, many churches help the members...not the community members where the church sits. Some churches will not even bury a member if he/she is not caught up on his/her tithing. Pathetic! With the wealth that comes from the black church there should not be the devastation we face. When we move from the comfortableness of our security e.g. car, home, salary, and church then we will recognize that the state of Black America is not getting better. But, we got the holy ghost...Christianity from its core tenets prepares one for an afterlife. Not a life on earth. Just notice the dogma. Read the history.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

NJ responds to Muata:

Blah...blah...blah...blah. NOT emotional. Nor defensive. Passionate about my opinion and belief's, just as you. Your original email, did not have any facts attached.

Futhermore, I don't have to defend MY JESUS to YOU or any other MAN.

-NJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to NJ:

"MY JESUS"

As long as He works for you. Right? My Jesus??? Wow!
Thanks for making my point. My Jesus...He works for you-
but da*n all others. I guess the Taoist are going to h*ll...?

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

One thing is for certain is that it is not a rarity to find well-maintained churches amidst poverty. One root cause of that is because most members of these churches have no personal investment in the surrounding community. If the residents are not members of the church, they receive little-to-no benefit having the church nearby. Members attending these churches usually come from other areas and return to those areas after services.

A church is more likely to do mostly for its members, not the surrounding community, as church has become more and more about politics and business and less and less about the maintenance and building of communities. Much of this is also seen in so-called multicultural churches, because members are indoctrinated to think along the lines of taking care of everybody--not just Blacks--mostly those who don't require it, or gaining prosperity.

When we mix such a supposed "spiritual" culture, we end up denying our own cultural identity, which causes us to look upon our brothers and sisters with less as responsible for their own upliftment out of poverty. It's the "I got mine, you get yours" syndrome personified.

-NAY

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to NAY:

Yep. We fell for this 'multi-cultural' crap. Focus has been removed from black empowerment. The president does not help us in this area either with his EVERYBODY approach. Soon we will be saying...again: it does not matter what color Jesus was.

If their was a Jesus.

Asinine!

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

NAY responds to Muata:

The whole point of multiculturalism is to dis-empower a people. Black people are the only ones who hold strong beliefs about it in ways that are destructive to them. Other groups only use it when it is of benefit to them or their groups. Our self-destructive personalities will not allow us to see to our best interests, and we'll rip out the throat of a brother or sister who confronts us with our shortcomings.

It doesn't matter what color they paint the european-concocted jesus, because the majority of us have been programmed from youth to see him as blue eyed, blond haired, no matter what they say to the contrary. Really, since it is a figment of the imagination in the first place, it doesn't matter how they see this character, because they still won't use it to change their circumstances or the circumstances of our community.

-NAY

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

NJ responds to Muata:

He's not your Jesus, so why would I refer to him as "OUR JESUS"?. You don't believe that he exists. I made NO point for you.

-NJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to NJ:

Don't include me. Include those African children preparing to die from AIDS. Really? He was killed for turning over money tables in the temple. He broke the law.
He dead!

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

NJ responds to Muata:

I'm done. Do me the biggest favor of the year so far. Take my name OFF your distribution list. Not interested.

-NJ

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

LS responds:

his Jesus talk makes me wonder. Why is it so important to honor Jesus if you are doing all of the other things? Why is Jesus more important than honoring your neighbor or being faithful to your wife? Why the big fuss? We know he was a man. Do we need to make him a God to know that his work on earth was good?


The notion of heaven is actually quite interesting. In my fathers house there are many mansions. Why does heaven have to be a paradise of great material items? Makes you wonder but then again man wrote the book of fables that Many people follow. It's all interesting to me. Maybe that's why I have yet to find it a priority because I have found no evidence that the practice of it in church is practical or useful for me at this time.

-LS

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Muata responds to LS:

It is needed to control. To force an incredible belief so that it will generate allegiance. If he is made human, he no different from you...

You have to also remember the writers of the text were trying to instill fear so that others would follow. They never thought that someone would study the text/beliefs from a non emotional and rational disposition.

Finally, why Jesus and not Moses?

Religion is a pathetic form of belief generation. All one needs is a mirror and parents with morals.

I push my train of thought because I honestly believe religion in its popular form handicaps folk and creates fanatics.

-Muata

Muata, The Shadow, The Black Rebel said...

Reader Response:

Interesting that you should have this as a topic. In Carter G. Woodson's "Miseducation of the Negro" he mentions that in the black community there's a church on almost every corner and that we (blacks) will find the money to erect them, yet we are not self sufficient in our communities when it comes to: Financial independence, providing our own education, health care etc.

I see NJ's point in that 'Some' Churches will try to empower our community by providing Schools and Financial institutions but they are few and far between and not enough to empower our entire community. I don't think their efforts should be discounted but I do agree with LS as well that in some of these Churches, the Pastor (and a few others) live well above their means (which is their right but that money could be used to help others).

Without getting into the whole 'Religious' conversation I'll leave by saying that I think that is WAAAAYYYY too many Churches for that area but look at it this way..... It could be liquor stores.

-DM